Host (Z): Good afternoon, esteemed listeners! Our guest today is Senior Research Fellow at the Sh. Marjani Institute of History, Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Tatarstan, Candidate of Sciences, Khayrutdinov Aidar Garifutdinovich. Hello, Aidar Garifutdinovich! Welcome!

Aidar Khayrutdinov (AK): Hello, Zulfina!

Z: Thank you for accepting the invitation and coming. Today's conversation is dedicated to the place of Islam in the history, culture, and daily life of the Tatar people, its national and regional characteristics, as well as Tatar theologians. Aidar Garifutdinovich is a researcher who conducts deep studies in this field and is the author of numerous scientific publications. Aidar Garifutdinovich, please start by briefly telling us about yourself and your scientific research.

AK: My scientific activity began in 1994, after graduating from the Faculty of Tatar Philology. That same year (miraculously), I was accepted into the postgraduate program at the Institute of Literature and History named after Galimjan Ibragimov, and my topic was approved at that time. It was the only remaining topic, and it was about Musa Bigeev. So, from 1994 to the present day, I have been working on the same topic. In 2004, I defended my candidate dissertation, which was also dedicated to the legacy of Musa Jarullovich Bigeev. This is my main scientific work. I enjoy my work, I do it with love, and I accept this labor as my fate.

Z: We will talk more about Musa Bigeev. But first, let's discuss something else. In 2022, the 1100th anniversary of the official adoption of Islam in Volga Bulgaria was grandly celebrated in Tatarstan and Moscow. What is the role of Islam in the history of our people and today? What do you think about this topic, Aidar Garifutdinovich?

AK: This is a very complex question because it can be discussed both from a realistic standpoint and from a dreamlike one. For example, in my dreams, I imagine Islam in my own way, but in reality, everything is different. However, we live in the real world by its rules, so I will speak based on the real situation. I emphasize that this is a very complex and profound question. Islam, as we know, was adopted during the existence of Volga Bulgaria. However, Islam in Volga Bulgaria was spread even before the Baghdad envoy Ibn Fadlan arrived in these lands. Nevertheless, for many years, perhaps centuries, the people of Volga Bulgaria lived outside of Islam. Our contemporary, Turkish researcher Mehmet Bey Bermes, once said words that stayed with me: "Can you imagine a people who adopted Islam in 922 and within two hundred years reached a level where they were teaching Islam to those outside of it?!" These are our ancestors. Therefore, the adoption of Islam was a very important cultural and civilizational step. One or two centuries into Islamic history, intellectual decline began. Unfortunately, the civilizational potential of Islam, i.e., the cultural power and possibilities embedded in Islam, started forming into buds that never fully bloomed. The reason was the onset of negative processes, the beginning of intellectual and spiritual decline. Islam could not showcase its possibilities as they dwindled, and the Islamic world began to regress. It kept regressing and has reached our days. I'm not talking about today; let's take the early 19th century, for example. From that moment, the colonization of the Islamic world began: Muslim countries started being conquered by European states. In our region, this process began even in the 16th century. This is a very complex question, once again, I emphasize.

Z: I wanted to ask about the role and help of Islam in preserving the Tatars as a people.

AK: This is interesting because, regardless of how Islam was closed off or dormant, even in its dormancy, it allowed the Tatar people to remain independent, spiritual, and maintain the independence of thought. Let's call it preservation. Let's imagine events from a hundred years ago. At that time, the Tatars were a united people, assimilation processes were not as strong, one might say they were almost non-existent. Therefore, in this context, of course, Islam was a decisive factor and was very, very important for the preservation of our people.

Z: And in the resistance to forced Christianization, did Muslim theologians probably play a role?

AK: Yes, naturally, because the people needed religion just as a suffocating person needs a breath of air. For our people, Islam was a means to remain a people, to remain human. But if we look at the events of the past hundred years, as we know, Islam was uprooted from the life of our people. Today, we say Islam has returned, but we still need to evaluate this return. On one hand, sermons in our mosques are conducted in Russian; even at gatherings, I see young imams who do not speak Tatar. Tatar gatherings (e.g., Quran recitations) are held, but the imams conduct them in Russian. Such unfortunate cases occur. On one hand, it seems Islam is present, but on the other hand, is this how it should be?! Some say: "No, in Islam, there is no concept of ethnicity, we can use Russian," yes, that's true, but Allah created many nationalities and languages. This too exists. You cannot simply remove ethnicity and nationality from Islam; this goes against the Quran and Allah. I'm moving on to minor thoughts and ideas. If you deal with Tatars, learn Tatar first, you might be a Tatar yourself. It's okay if a Russian person converts to Islam and holds gatherings for Russians, let them speak their native language. But those of us who didn't learn the language due to well-known childhood circumstances should make an effort to learn it. Yes, there are such imams, we know them, there are representatives of higher clergy who didn't know the language but worked hard and learned it because they respect it. Such people are closer to Allah, in my opinion. Saying that people who come to the mosque do not know Tatar is incorrect, as in Europe, sermons are conducted in Latin, in Orthodox churches in Old Slavonic, which almost no one understands. They don't change the language there; sermons are conducted in the official language of the religion. Yes, the official language of Islam is Arabic, and it is spoken, and we do not say that Tatar is the official language of Islam, but you cannot simply remove Tatar. These are the small thoughts I've reached.

Z: This is not a minor question at all, Aidar Garifutdinovich. In my opinion, in Islamic institutes, especially in Kazan, Tatar should be a mandatory subject. Lack of knowledge of the Tatar language and literature is, in my opinion, a disadvantage. What do you think?

AK: As far as I know, there is a Department of Tatar Language at the Russian Islamic Institute in Kazan, meaning Tatar is taught there. If there is a department, there is teaching; otherwise, why have the department? But the instruction at the Islamic institute is in Russian. Fine, let it be so because not only Tatars study in our religious educational institutions. I'm not talking about madrasas; I'm talking about institutes like the Bulgarian Islamic Academy, where the teaching is in Russian. But the audience can be divided. For example, for Tatar imams, make Tatar not just an elective but a mandatory subject, teach these people to speak a beautiful literary and religious language. But I don't know how it actually is there; I don't know their internal workings.

Z: I also agree with you; the Tatar language and literature should be mandatory subjects for Tatar students. Okay, moving on, Aidar Garifutdinovich. Among the Tatar people, theologians such as Shigabutdin Marjani, Riza Fakhretdinov, Murat Ramzi, Musa Bigeev, Ziya Kamali, Zakir Kadiri stood out. Their works are known throughout the Muslim world. Do you consider Tatar religious thought and Tatar Islamic philosophy as separately formed disciplines? At what level is Tatar religious thought and philosophy now?

AK: In your question, I see two parts: the situation before the October Revolution and the situation today. Let's stop at each separately. The figures you listed are great scholars, people with deep religious knowledge. They certainly created what we can call Tatar religious philosophy. These people created a strong philosophical, economic, political, cultural, and even civilizational movement. Of course, we should know about this. This phenomenon is called Jadidism, but it is noted very insignificantly. Yes, unlike other movements, for example, socialist ones, where philosophical thought takes on a religious hue, Jadidism, which we know, is associated with organizing the educational process. There is an influence of Jadidism on religion in any case. But calling this powerful philosophical movement simply Jadidism is, in my opinion, very small. Such designation gives the movement an incorrect assessment. We need to conduct much more scientific research to assess these movements and trends. This activity is successful or not going on with us. But if we pay attention to today, this is a very interesting question because Islam has returned, thank God, everyone was delighted, mosques are being built, madrasas are working, students are being graduated, and we even have publishers releasing religious literature. I don't want to offend other publications, but "Khuzur" comes to mind; it's a very beautiful phenomenon. Only rejoice. But do we have religious thought? Yes, we have figures you listed who lived a hundred years ago; it would be good to bring back their legacy. This work is being done, perhaps we will stop at this thought for a while. Their works are slowly returning to the people, but these are thoughts said a hundred years ago. Are we really to be satisfied with only hundred-year-old thoughts today? This is the first point. Secondly, besides the religious thought of Tatar figures, there is also the general Islamic culture, which is more than a thousand years old. The intellectual and spiritual heritage collected over a thousand years, I'm talking about books, religious movements, in general, about the philosophical thought of the Islamic world. The creation of these works has never stopped in other countries of the Islamic world, and they are now returning to us. But even this was written long ago; these are long-said words, and they are taken as a template. Ancient religious thinkers wrote their works, set boundaries beyond which, supposedly, one cannot go. Marjani, Kursavi, Bigeev, and others went beyond these limits, i.e., the rules and principles of Islam written by ancient theologians were too narrow for them. Disagreeing with this narrowness, unable to withstand these constraints, they went beyond them and expanded Islamic religious thought. Back then, a hundred, hundred and fifty, two hundred years ago, these figures, with their creativity, breathed new life into Islam. But today, this is not the case. Today, the heritage of the Islamic world returns to us, which, in my opinion, is also limited. Perhaps someone hears this for the first time now, but I recall Bigeev's words, who said that tafsirs caused the most damage to the Islamic religion.

Z: Why?

AK: This is another story, but I'll try to explain briefly. Tafsirs are interpretations of the Quran; these are books created for interpretation. As interpretations of the Quran were very complex in these books, the religious thought of Muslim peoples became very narrow. Understanding the Quran, the world you live in, and your place in it was very limited. I will say once again, progressive Tatar religious thinkers tried to change this, and today, the thoughts and views of our Tatar thinkers are still not widely accepted. There are, of course, individual thoughts and views accepted by the religious community. For example, let's take Bigeev when he lived in Russia, when he lived abroad. He wrote a lot, but for example, I don't know that the thoughts from his work "Ilahi Merhametneng Gommuylege" are widespread, but at the same time, his views on the life of Shiite Muslims, on how they pray, on their ijtihad are accepted and widespread. His book "Al Vashiqa, Finak Kaynak Dashiga" is not critical, and he himself did not consider it such, but it is still published in the Islamic world.

Z: On major issues, muftis probably can no longer write/develop a fatwa, as it is considered that major issues have been resolved. However, sometimes in everyday life, there are cases overlooked by Islam that require a fatwa. Perhaps Kamil Hazrat and Raul Hazrat have the right to issue fatwas, what do you think?

AK: They have both the education and the appropriate position for this; they are muftis. And a mufti is a person who issues fatwas, so they can do this.

Z: The listeners of our audio conversation are mainly Tatars living in Europe and those who want to learn the Tatar language. You have already mentioned Musa Jarullovich Bigeev many times. What would you say about him to evoke love and interest in this person? What characterization of Musa Bigeev would you give?

AK: This is a very deep question; I need to gather my thoughts. When I talk about Musa Bigeev before any audience, I rely on one possibility, even not a possibility, but a circumstance. I first talk about the period in which he lived, the respect and attention he received from his contemporaries, and the kind of intellect this person possessed. I speak about the level of respect and the people from whom it came. Perhaps in someone hearing about Bigeev for the first time from my words, interest will awaken; I believe this can spark interest. This is the first point. Secondly, I would use such a formula. Imagine a rocket that can take a person into space. The rocket is very beautiful; it is painted, and everything around is arranged as it should be, but people don't know what this rocket is for. Like with Islam. If you compare Islam to this rocket, it's a non-flying rocket. But Bigeev came and said: "It should fly, let me show you." Or, for example, savages who came out of the forest see an asphalt road for the first time with a sports car on it. They came out of the forest and say: "Ah, what a beautiful car," and dance around it. But Bigeev came and said: "Guys, this car can take you to where you need to go at great speed; this is its real use." This is a cartoonish example, but Bigeev is the person who showed the depth and possibilities of Islam. And another small comment, when evaluating Islam and its role in Musa Bigeev's life, his words come to mind: "Islam, the size of the universe, was placed in small frames of the minds of individual theologians and presented to people as Islam, although it is only a small part of it," i.e., Islam, the size of the universe, was placed within the limited frames of individual theologians' minds, and this is what people were taught as Islam. No one taught that Islam is a whole universe, but Bigeev began to speak about it, but even he could not finish this work. Of course, if Islam is the size of the universe, it is impossible to fully understand its possibilities, its philosophy, the depth of this philosophy, and its significance in a person's life. Bigeev, Marjani began this. If we talk about Bigeev and his legacy from this side, this is how I would interest the listeners.

Z: And then you would talk about his works, about the works you published or a collection dedicated to him? A very good collection was published under your authorship in Kazan. I want to raise the topic of Musa Bigeev and the Quran, as he participated and led work on publishing the Quran, also worked on translation and tafsirs of the Quran, and controversial words on this topic were heard from him. How do you evaluate Bigeev's activities in this area?

AK: If we take Bigeev's legacy, we can see several directions in his works, but the most important one is the study of the Quran and fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence) issues. I'm not saying that other areas of his work are less significant, but these, especially today as I also work on interpretations, are his most substantial and extensive works. Returning to the Quran. Musa Jarullovich, having studied abroad, returned to his homeland, Russia, in 1904. In 1905, his book "The History of the Quran and Manuscripts" was published. This was his first book, written in Arabic and published in Saint Petersburg. It is not a thick book, but the thoughts presented in it had such great significance that Rashid Rida in Egypt published it in his magazine "Al-Manar." So, with his very first work, Musa Jarullovich attracted the attention of the most influential progressive thinkers of the Islamic world. From this first work until his last days, the Quran became the leitmotif of his legacy. As I mentioned, his first book was about the Quran, and in 1947, 1948, and 1949, even in the last years of his life, his article dedicated to the Quran was published in a magazine in Turkey. Thus, while he was alive, his first work was about the Quran, and so was his last. Therefore, it should not be surprising if I say that the theme of the Quran was the most important in the legacy of Musa Bigeev. We also know that in 1912 Musa Jarullovich completed a translation of the Quran into the Tatar language. By "Tatar language," we mean in general terms; it is not today's Tatar language. It was a language that could be understood by the inhabitants of the Ottoman Empire. It was not pure Ottoman language; Bigeev tried to make his works understandable both to all the Turkic Muslims living in Russia and to those who knew the Ottoman language.

Z: At that time, there was a kind of trend, a movement to bring the Tatar and Ottoman languages closer. Many of our figures, intellectuals, knew Ottoman well, and probably for this reason, Musa Bigeev tried to write in this language.

AK: Yes, I think so too. To be understood by Muslims living in these states. This translation in 1912 was ready for printing; there was even an agreement with a printing house in Kazan on the cost of publication and a print run of 5,000 copies. Everything was already arranged, but clergy, mullahs who were attached to the past, whom we call Qadimists, opposed this. They believed that the Quran should not be translated into Tatar; these narrow-minded mullahs wrote a complaint to the mufti in the Orenburg Mohammedan Spiritual Assembly against Bigeev, collected signatures, and the mufti banned the publication of this translation by his fatwa. Maybe it wasn't a fatwa, but what came from the mufti was a circular. All publishers received letters prohibiting the printing of this translation. It is very unfortunate and sad that Musa Jarullovich's translation of the Quran has not been found to this day. Then, returning to the theme of the Quran, in Musa Bigeev's legacy, no matter what work you take, Quranic verses are cited. What does this mean? Of course, if it is a religious book, there must be Quranic verses, but the difference in Bigeev's works is that he did not interpret the Quranic verses as it was accepted in tafsir; he interpreted them in his own way.

Z: Was there no tafsir at that time?

AK: There was tafsir, but you know, it needs to be explained. In our Muslim culture, a Muslim can open the Quran and read it with blessings. Bigeev writes about this too; people accept the Quran as a sacred book, reading which can make one pious. But what is written in the book is not understood by ordinary people. To understand what is written in the Quran, they need to work hard and learn Arabic, but even in this case, reading the Quran is forbidden. It's a very strange phenomenon, but it's true. Reading the Quran is forbidden; you must read the interpretations because if you studied in a madrasa or elsewhere, you would be taught: "You cannot understand the Quran correctly; only the ancient theologians understood it correctly. They collected their understanding in interpretations, so you should read them." Thus, they separate the people from the Quran. And in the interpretations, as I said before, Bigeev saw the greatest harm to the Islamic world. If someone was dissatisfied with reading only interpretations and decided to read the Quran itself, they were scared with a fabricated hadith. Now I will deviate a little from our topic, but I must say this. You mentioned the scholar Zakir Kadyri, who did a great job analyzing hadiths and concluded that 90% of hadiths were false. There are hadiths that are completely fabricated. Returning to Bigeev, people were offered such a hadith. Its idea is this: if anyone opens the Quran, reads it, and understands it in their own way, they prepare a place for themselves in hell. This hadith was spread among the people. It was done to prevent people from reading the Quran themselves and to scare them. This is a deliberately conducted sabotage because in the Quran, Allah says that he provides this book to everyone, to all people. But it turns out that an ordinary person has no right to read this book. Truthfully, this is a very scary thing. Bigeev translated the Quran not according to these interpretations; he gave his own explanations to each verse. This is another peculiarity of Bigeev's attitude towards the Quran. As I said, he had a work dedicated to the Quran that was published in Turkey until his death. In it, he explains the reasons for the occurrence of surahs and verses, their wisdom. In short, he wrote a bundle for each surah; he wrote this for the people of Turkey, who, due to forced circumstances, were distanced from religion. He creates a very thick book, but unfortunately, it has not been found to this day. Excerpts from this book were translated and published in Turkey. I would also say something else about the Quran. Musa Jarullovich republished ancient books about the Quran written by very educated theologians of the past from different parts of the Islamic world, for example, in Andalusia. These books fell out of public attention, and people forgot about them, but Bigeev revived/reminded them. For example, in Kazan since 1907, several such books dedicated to the Quran have been published. One or two books by Imam Shatibi, the first on his fiqh, and the second on the Quran, as well as books by other authors on this topic. Bigeev's goal was to bring the Quran closer to the people and the people to the Quran. He wanted to offer students, mullahs, and scholars the real Quran, not his thoughts but the thoughts of forgotten theologians. He was returning their legacy. This is another peculiarity. Also, we know that in 1923 Musa Jarullovich was arrested, and one of the reasons for his arrest was his relations with Turkish envoys. At that time, he lived in Tashkent, and in 1921 a delegation from the Turkish parliament arrived. At that time, the Soviet government, represented by the Bolsheviks, was in close cooperation with the Turkish government.

Z: It seems like we're talking about the life of Ismet Pasha?

AK: Speaking of names, Musa Jarulla participated and met with Suissali.

Z: Ismail Suissali?

AK: He met with Suissali and submitted his address to him to be heard in the Turkish parliament. In this address, Musa Bigeev wanted to give his advice to Turkish parliamentarians. This is a separate issue, which I will not dwell on now. But when he was arrested, among other charges, they accused him, I read the interrogation protocols, they asked him: "What right did you have to meet with a diplomat from another country?" to which Bigeev replied: "As a representative of all Muslims in Russia, I took on this responsibility," to which they asked: "What made you take the responsibility to speak for all Muslims?" to which Bigeev replied: "Because I know the Quran better than anyone else!"

Z: Amazing. This is the first time I hear this fact. I hadn't heard it before.

AK: These protocols are written in Russian, and it sounds like this: "Because I know the Quran better than anyone else!" At first, I was surprised. On the one hand, it seemed like boasting, but on the other hand, when you have a case against you, when you are being interrogated, you are arrested, is there room for boasting? No, it was indeed an objective reality. I heard this from Kamil Hazrat Samigullin, the mufti of the spiritual assembly. When he talked to me, our mufti studied in Turkey and also heard about Bigeev there. From his words, I first heard this link. Musa Jarullovich Bigeev knew ten Qiraat of the Quran. He taught these ten Qiraat to Arabs in Mecca. There were probably not only Arabs but other Muslims too. However, he was a person who taught Muslims, scholars, the Qiraat of the Quran in Mecca. Let's stop on what the Qiraat of the Quran is. The Qiraat of the Quran is a method of reading the Quran. Each Qiraat has its own peculiarity. The Qiraat is connected with the companions of the Prophet Muhammad. How they heard the Quran, how they taught their students to read, the method of reading of each companion had its own features. These features have come down to us unchanged. They are not related to the pronunciation of words in Mecca. I knew only seven Qiraat in the Islamic world, and people generally know only about these seven Qiraat. I wouldn't have known about the ten Qiraat if Kamil Hazrat hadn't told me. It turns out there were ten Qiraat. Musa Bigeev was not just a connoisseur of Qiraat; he was at the level of teaching them. Anyone could teach it if they gathered an audience, but not everyone could attract people to listen. It means that Bigeev had an audience that listened to ten Qiraat from him with open mouths, forgetting about everything worldly. So, when Bigeev said that he knew the Quran better than anyone, he was telling the truth. It was not boasting. This is another feature of Bigeev's legacy concerning the Quran.

Z: You have very beautifully explained the connection between the Quran and Musa Bigeev, Aidar Garifutdinovich. Could you tell us about today's interpretations of the Quran among Tatars, about the translations, and about your activities in this field?

AK: I will still have to return to Bigeev. I forgot to mention something about the Quran and Musa Bigeev's legacy. In 1909, Musa Jarullovich was in Kazan and announced that he had found errors in Kazan editions of the Quran. Qadimists raised a huge uproar; they started saying a lot against Bigeev. In short, peace left the people. In these conditions, to stop the strife, Yunus Bay gathered a commission at his home. He opened his house to anyone who wanted, let's say, clergymen, students. Two meetings were held in February 1909, attended by about 300 people. The central issue was this. Musa Jarullovich explained his point of view, and as a result, the participants were forced to accept his arguments. A very good report was written about these disputes and conversations by Sagit Rameev, called "Correction of the Quranic Text," i.e., correction of the Quran's writing. Bigeev's arguments were not just accepted; a special commission of clergymen in Kazan was even organized, which identified all the errors Bigeev pointed out and found more than 60 errors. Based on the results, they issued a special resolution and sent it to various parts of the Islamic world, to Cairo, to India, as the Kazan edition was widely spread at that time. This resolution even reached Egypt. Here it is necessary to understand what the Kazan edition was doing in Egypt. The fact is that Kazan was not just the capital of Tatarstan but also a center for the distribution of the Quran. It played the biggest role among four cities. The Quran originated in Mecca, was read in Cairo, written in Istanbul, and printed in Kazan. This chain is formed. Such an interesting event happened in 1909, and it is very beautifully connected to today because the same Kamil Hazrat Samigullin organized the publication of the Kazan Quran in Bilgisayar. In 2017-2018, the Kazan edition of the Quran was printed in Kazan. There, the errors found by Bigeev and Marjani were all corrected. The writing of the Kazan Quran did not match the Quran of Osman. This is what Bigeev said.

Z: Are you talking about the Quran, the version of Osman?

AK: Yes, that's what we're talking about. The writing of each word was aligned with this Quran and should be written exactly that way. The resulting errors did not match the writing of the Osman Quran. At first, I thought these were typographical errors, but no, these were errors that occurred during the printing of the Quran, which ruined the Osman writing of the Quran. According to Bigeev, 62-63 errors were found. Marjani started this work; he also saw these errors. And now, in those years, they published a corrected version in Kazan.

Z: How did the Islamic world react to this edition?

AK: I can't tell you, I haven't followed it. I can't say anything at all. But I have this new, corrected Quran; the mufti gave it to me as a gift. It is a very beautiful edition, very convenient to read. The feature of the Kazan edition was that it was typeset in an accessible font. The Quran, typeset in other countries, is difficult for us to read, but the Kazan edition can be sent anywhere in the Islamic world, and it will be readable there. It is written in an easily readable script.

Z: What is your opinion on the tafsirs and translations into Tatar, currently used by Muslims, Tatar Muslims?

AK: Currently, we have ancient interpretations being published, including those written by Tatar theologians, and in translations. Isaev's translations have been found by Alfrid Bustanov, and there is a translation by Batulla. Here, one should consider that Batulla is not a religious figure, while Isaev is a religious figure; in any case, he was a mufti even during Soviet times. Other translations into Tatar I cannot recall right now; mainly interpretations come to mind. But I believe that these translations contain errors that have been carried over from ancient times because translators still look at the interpretation, and in this case, errors migrate from one translation to another, creating a very strange situation. To translate the Quran, they refer to tafsir. They do not translate the Quran itself. I say this because I, along with a very close friend, Airat Bakhtiyarov, translated the Quran for thirteen years, and we published it, it is a two-volume work written in Arabic with transliteration and a literal literary translation. This is a translation into Russian, but not close to the Quran. Thanks to this work and participation, I know this problem well; there are many errors in the translation of the Quran, not only in Tatar but also in Russian. They migrate from one translation to another. If desired, I can give examples, as this issue is on my mind. From this point of view, the Tatar people do not currently have a correct translation of the Quran into the Tatar language.

As for my views, I would say that the axis of Islam, the element fulfilling the axis of Islam, was removed from the interpretation due to incorrectly made translations, due to these interpretations, and this element is called "metempsychosis" or the transmigration of souls; in short, the theme of reincarnation was removed from Islam. But this theme is in the Quran, it stands out brightly and screams.

In connection with this theme, I understood why people are so diligently turned away from the Quran. It was made so that the existing theme of reincarnation in the Quran and other thoughts did not reach the masses so that they would remain in this delusion and not know the truth. This is what happened in every religion. Prophets who brought these facts and exalted them are not eternal. They leave this world, and religion remains in the hands of theologians who twist it as they please. This is clearly visible in the example of reincarnation.

This is my personal experience, and if there is a theological thought in the Tatar religious environment today, whether it is much or little, it was identified and described in my book. Those who read this book told me that Tatars still have Tatar philosophy. It is more accurate to call it religious philosophy. For example, the same Rabit Batulla, having read my book, wrote a review where he noted that this book should be discussed on television, radio, and in print; it should be talked about. He also said that this book is the only one today that can be read about Tatar religious thought. This is the evaluation he gave me.

Z: This is a very high evaluation, Aidar Garifutdinovich. How did the public react to your book?

AK: This book has not reached the public.

Z: Why?

AK: Firstly, I published it with my own money, 50 copies. How can it spread? Therefore, Batulla's proposal hung in the air; it was said but not realized. And our journalist, Rashid Minhazh, who tried to implement this idea, told me that this book should be shown to the people. He gave this book to two hazrats, one of whom returned the book after a couple of days and refused to participate in any disputes regarding the content of the book. I don't know why. And in the hands of the second, the book was lost. These are the results.

Z: Nowadays, it's the age of the internet. Publish it on the internet; in my opinion, the number of your readers will increase.

AK: I am a person born in the last millennium, so my relationship with the internet is not very good. If I have helpers who say, Aidar abiy, let's publish your book on the internet, I would gladly do it. Today, I am translating this book into Russian, and if destined, I will publish it in Russian.

Z: Amen. Now to the question about the Arabic language. Unfortunately, due to the lack of knowledge of Arabic and the inability to use it freely, ignorance is spreading among the Tatars. I would like to hear your opinion on how the Arabic language should be taught, where it can be taught, how it can be taught, and the language of sermons in mosques.

AK: Sometimes I listen to the sermons of our hazrats who speak Tatar. They speak very beautifully, it's pleasing, but they all still talk about what was talked about a thousand years ago, nothing new. Once, many years ago, I went to one of the mosques for Friday prayers. For a long time, not less than a year, I went. The hazrat always had a notebook in his hands from which he preached, and after a year, I saw him start the same notebook again! The world is boiling next to you; political events are boiling, countries appear and disappear. Don't you have more relevant topics to address the people, taken from this life, that could be presented in a sermon?! Firstly, offering such a sermon is an insult to the people, and secondly, listening to such a sermon is not knowing one's worth, being dishonest. So you came to the mosque, and if you listened, you would say: "Wait, you said this last year." So it's a double-edged stick, hitting both the head of the one who delivers such sermons and the head of the one who attends the mosque because they were inattentive. The sermon should be bright; it should inspire people. And there are such imams, but usually, there are more who tell fairy tales.

Z: Aidar Garifutdinovich, for an interesting and rich conversation, I express my sincere gratitude and wish you further creative success, new scientific discoveries. I wish you many works, many readers, and I hope such meetings will continue. I also thank our listeners.

AK: Zulfina khanum, thank you very much for inviting me to such a program, for this conversation, for giving me the opportunity to speak to the public. May you be destined to work and achieve results. I wish health to our listeners as well.